Transcript

Peter: I was with the sustainability team until probably 15 years ago now. At that time we were running the loft insulation grant, programme that was funded from the gas and electricity companies, the utilities and there was reasonable take up. There was also the setting up of local energy efficiency grouping and loft insulation and cavity wall insulation, when it’s properly and well done, are the two easiest, most cost effective ways of making your house warmer. So that’s why we focused on those.

Since then external and internal wall insulation has become more available and more cost effective.

When we moved into our Victorian terrace nearly 25 years ago now, we did have to do some immediate measures. The previous owners had put polystyrene ceiling tiles in most of the rooms, which was a thing that was done in the 60s and 70s, but was then realised it was a serious fire risk because when the polystyrene gets very hot it starts dripping, flaming, bits of polystyrene on to people and furniture and fittings below.

So we had that done and had to have all the ceilings replastered.

We then put central heating in, which the house hadn’t had till then. And there was a gas fire in the lounge. We then had a family and didn’t redecorate for another 20 years or so.

We were then in the fortunate position to have some money available and to want to make the house cosier, easier to look after and more pleasant to live in. That’s when I started looking at what insulation measures we might take.

We were very aware that a lot of the cold downstairs was coming up through the floor, and from the chimney in the lounge with the gas fire that is open because it needs to be ventilated. That’s what we focused on.

Flavia (Selce): What I’m understanding is that you were finally in a financial position where you were able to do it and that your home needed some work and you probably had a bit more time.

Peter: So the front bay window is south facing and pretty sunny and warm but the back, north facing dining room, downstairs bathroom and the back upstairs bedroom are north facing.

About 15 years ago we had internally insulated, the back bedroom when we had a loft conversion done, and that room had always been cold, but is now pretty cosy and warm.

You lose some space, I think it was nearly 50 millimetres internally. So the room is smaller, but it’s liveable.

Flavia: do you find that you’re using. Even though they’re smaller, are you using those rooms more because they’re more comfortable?

Peter: I would say so. And for a while it became my son’s de facto office. So when he’s sat in here, with his PC going suddenly of an evening in the winter, there’s little heat coming from the radiator. It’s just the PC is keeping the room warm. For the more recent works, what I then started looking at, was we need to have the outside front of the house repainted as well. Just a sand and paint, perfectly nice job, but within a year, it was starting to peel again.

So the first thing I had was some quotes for a repaint.

But then looked at other possibilities. So there were two options. One was to go for external wall insulation. And that’s where you have an extra layer put on the front, of the right insulating material, which would either be 50 or 100 millimetres, that’s two or four inches. Or do a silicon render, which is an extra layer on top of existing mortar.

But they use a sort of fine plastic mesh, and an undercoat, but a base coat below that and an undercoat on top of the mesh.

And then this silicon render which comes in two forms. One is breathable, the other not breathable. So we went for the breathable, which is what a Victorian building needs. That was about twice the price of painting it. But the colour finish is built into the silicon and it’s supposed to last a lot longer.

And it’s breathable. And because of the plastic mesh, it’s sort of movable as well. So as the mortar heats and cools and dries and gets a bit wet and ages, it should last longer.

I’m hoping that it will last many years rather than just less than a year.

Flavia: So you have you had a winter with it?

Peter: We haven’t had a winter with it yet. So I’m going to watch that, watch the space. So we did have a couple of firms quote for putting in external wall insulation.

And that was pricier still, I moved out of the energy efficiency field and I haven’t kept track of everything that’s happened since.

But for me, what was interesting in 20, 23, 24, going back into this and trying to work out what best to do now on my house with my money, I wasn’t convinced that things have moved on hugely.

And there were quite a few firms through the National Insulation Association that I contacted, but they were all busy with government grant-led programmes, which are focused on houses that are much less energy efficient than ours was already as a Victorian terrace.

You’ve got people either side of you. We’d already done some of the work. We had double glazing, albeit a bit old.

The loft insulation meant that we didn’t have more loft insulation to do. There was nothing else that we could do.

And also I was fortunate enough to have enough money not to qualify for any grants in terms of income.

Flavia: It’s interesting that you say that because with the Love Loft programmes we have two programmes that we’re running. One is the one that you participated in, which is the Future Fit Homes programme which does access to grants as well as help for householders. But the Love Lofts campaign that we’re running is what we found was really difficult to onboard contractors because the majority of contractors who did loft insulation were also tapping into the government grants because they could do a lot more for a lot less in one house.

Peter: So I signed up for newsletters from South East London Community Energy just because of my long standing interest in the matters and to keep in touch with what you were doing.

And having looked at other possibilities myself, decided that I would ask for the Selce Home Energy Audit. And that was really to check that I had thought of everything.

But also that energy audit provided figures and justification, and most importantly pointed us towards firms that genuinely understood insulation.

Because one of the firms that I’d already got a quote from had offered to do external polystyrene insulation which is really not appropriate for our building.

Even I found it quite hard to follow all the technical details, but I’m glad I have them.

One thing it did show, was that the cost effectiveness in our property, which was roughly an EPC C, the cost effectiveness of most of the things that we could do was very low.

So you’re doing them to improve the niceness of your house, the sellability of your house, the liveability of your house, that it’s not going to pay you back.

But we’ve done the work, spent lots of money, and the house is a lovely place in a way that it wasn’t before. So, yeah, when I did then engage the firm, they did seem to understand what was needed.

And we had quite a few elements costed. And in terms of the external wall insulation, in heat terms it’s more effective. But the issue was, we’re one of a row of four Victorian terraces. We share an external roof gutter. If you stick 100 mil of insulation on the front you’re losing all those features and affecting the roof line.

Getting the guttering right across four roofs, when one is 100 mil the wall is 100 mil further out is going to be difficult. Keeping neighbours happy is really important and not always easy.

So on balance we didn’t go for that. We just went for the internal wall insulation in our lounge. At some point in the future we’d love to do it in the upstairs bedroom as well but we now have cupboards in a wardrobe storage that don’t give us that amount of space.

So we’d have to start from scratch.

Flavia: And then in terms of your neighbours. Actually I’m quite curious about that because there’s a lot of research into place-based approaches to retrofitting and that it tends to work well when communities do it together. There’s some really strong examples particularly up in Birmingham in Balsall Heath.

Peter: I think if the whole row of houses were being done at once it might be more acceptable.

If a whole street were being done at once, probably better still. It is disruptive to your life.

Just to talk people through the process once we decided what we were doing. So the lounge and dining room needed replastering and it’s something that we put off doing 25 years ago.

Because we knew that when some of the heavy anaglypta wallpaper was removed half the wall would come with it.

That there were some patches that would just fall away, and others that were just really pitted so that needed doing. So if you’re replastering put in new sockets and the number of sockets that we now need rather than what was put in 100 years ago.

If I’m doing that, put in the capability for a future electric vehicle charging point with the cable running under the floor to the right place. Put in an outdoor light.

So doing all that electrical work has to be done before the plastering. The one firm was doing the replastering, the internal wall insulation and the painting.

I used another local firm to do the electric. So they came.

Actually, no, the insulation firm was doing the outside silicon render first. That was back in sort of March, April time.

Then the electrical work was in April. The plastering was in May. Then we had the flooring done in July. And in the meantime, I had to arrange for the radiators to be removed and then replaced with a local plumber.

And we used another local firm to do that, the carpeting and the wood flooring. So everybody had to come in process. So it’s taken four months.

Flavia: Okay. It’s quite quick, actually.

Peter: Yeah,  we had to move everything out of the lounge and dining room.

All the contents, which we’re now gradually putting back.

I think if you’re not around at home, and having people in it is quite difficult, or you need to be available on the end of a phone.

We were on holiday one week when one of the firms was in.

So I took my notes and measurements with me.

At one point we were literally on the top of Cheddar Gorge and I had some notes on my phone, so I said, no, it needs to be at 20 centimetres, not 15, so you do have to understand what you’re doing.

Flavia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sounds like there’s also, a degree of having to pay attention to extreme amount of detail, but also learning to let go a little bit in the process as well. Knowing when to push and when to pull back a little bit.

I’m just curious in terms. You’ve highlighted a number of challenges that you’ve faced and the positives that come out is that your home is much more comfortable, it’s much more liveable, it’s a more pleasant place to be. If you had to give a piece of advice to a homeowner that’s interested in stepping down this route, what would it be?

Peter: A lot of people think, that upgrading their double glazing is the most important thing. In terms of appearances and possibly in terms of future sellability, you might be right, but it’s the most expensive thing you can do.

I think the advice I would give is look at all the possibilities.Having the Selce Home Energy Audit costs you money, but it means you’ve got something tangible to work with.

And someone sensible who comes into your home and gives you options and choices.

I didn’t go ahead with all the things that were recommended.

So we’ve kept our chimneys open, but the lounge has what’s called a chimney sheep. So it’s a big wodge of sheep wool that is pushed up into the chimney space above the open fire.

Insulation, insulation, insulation is the key thing. We had looked at air source heat pumps, our boiler’s, probably eight years old now, but going strong. So I’m not planning to replace that. But one thing I did want to do was think about what I was doing now and whether for a future, either for us or another house owner, am I doing anything that would make air source heat pump system less viable?

So I did get a quote from Octopus for air source heat pump and talked to them about the heating system that we have and whether major changes would be needed.

The general advice was that the heating pipes we had were sufficient. We might have to have bulkier radiators. So I’ve ensured that in the dining room and lounge there is space for those bulkier radiators that are needed in future. And the underfloor insulation means that the rooms are better insulated for that type of system.

If I were braver, maybe we should have looked at building underfloor insulation, underfloor heating, but I wasn’t entirely convinced.

The air source heat pumps require quite a bit more kit and water tank. I don’t quite know where we put in our house at the moment.

But yes, I think it would be good advice to think of future proofing your house, including with the things that you don’t do.

Flavia: That’s a really great piece of advice, Peter. Just about thinking forward as well and the choices that you’re making.

To dream big and dream ideal and then make your choices in the present in terms of working towards that larger vision not only for your home, but also for your community, for the energy system and to dream big and to locate one’s own house within that wider context, I think is really something that’s often lost in the process because upgrading one’s home and renovating is such a detail oriented space that it’s important to remind homeowners to just zoom out and take a look at the bigger picture for a bit and then to zoom back in into the details for that context to remember why this is so.

Thank you so much for your time, Peter. I really appreciate you talking to us about your experiences and what you’ve gone through and look forward to hearing as well about what it’s like in the springtime after you’ve lived through winter of your new home.

Peter: Okay. And one final thought. Talk to the rest of your household – wife, partner, children, whatever.

They certainly provided me a lot of feedback along the way and I think between us we’ve made better decisions.